Woopra Beats Google Analytics

[iMarket]

I'm not sure if you guys are using anything other than SOL's built in site analytics; my guess is probably some are using Google Analytics in addition to SOL..?

Anyways, I just thought I would let everyone know about Woopra, seeing as it is just coming out. Although there are many cool features about it, probably the coolest is that it provides real-time stats. You get a little program that runs right on your computer, and ties into the server. So you get to see, minute by minute, if there are people on your site. It tells you where they're from, what they're looking at, where they've been etc. If you want, you can even initiate a chat window with them!!

I'm sure there are good uses for this, for instance if you're noticing many people leaving in the middle of your shopping cart, you could perhaps try chatting with them to find out why they're not completing the purchase. I've read elsewhere that using chat on webstores can really help boost conversions (Note: in these cases chat was not used as a "sales" tool but more as a "help" tool - it won't work if you jump on there and start ramming a sales pitch down their throat). Not sure exactly how that would work out - I'm sure others have good ideas for that...?

Another cool use is that if you do some special promotion online somewhere you can watch the resulting traffic in real-time, and possibly correct any problems as they arise, rather than the next day. For instance, one day my blog got a ton of traffic from StumbleUpon, and I was able to watch it as it came and tweak my page in real time.

I should mention that as Woopra is currently in beta testing, you have to apply to get a site code (my DigitalFrameGuy site was just approved, and it was in application for about 3 weeks, so be patient!). Woopra is free as well, and I've been told it will remain free even after beta.

You can read a bit more about it on my blog post on Woopra (http://jonathanboettcher.com/woopra-the-chuck-norris-of-site-analytics/), or just checkout Woopra.com (http://www.woopra.com) and see for yourself.

It is rapidly gaining popularity in the blogging world; however I've just installed it on my SOL site and it appears to be working great. Oh - installation is as simple as Google Analytics, just drop in a couple lines of code on your default background and you're off to the races.

[KarenMac]

Jonathan.

It sounds good.. I didnt go look at it as I have more to do than i can possibly accomplish without hiring someone.. but my concern would be .. how much LIVE bandwidth does this eat up... And how much PULL on your server? i dont know if this would be good for SOL because of that...Let us KNOW how it interacts with your site once you get it up and running.. if it slows your loading time down considerably.. i suspect it will.

Karen

[iMarket]

Hi Karen,

I don't think there will be any noticeable affect on performance. The code is quite literally about 4 or 5 lines long (same as Google Analytics) including the script tags. It basically just pings Woopra's server for each page load, same as any other analytics package would. The revolutionary part is that now we get to have a desktop client that plugs directly into Woopra's server, to see these stats in real time. So in terms of SOL server performance it shouldn't make any real difference. You're not transferring tons of data or anything like that. A visitor would get tagged once on entering the site, and then just a quick ping when they do something different.

If you want, go to DigitalFrameGuy.com (http://www.digitalframeguy.com) and see how fast it loads, as the script is live on there right now.

[ritarobi_cwo]

I check out your blog. Woopra looks interesting.

-Rita

[EDS]

Checked out Woopra and it beats Google Analytics hands down at this time for information being presented back to you. Really like the real time features of WOOPRA.

BIG Thanks to Jonathan for sharing this info on a great piece of software.

Unfortunately, this is where the bug that I listed in "System Wide Issues" all became apparent. Cannot get Woopra's code installed on other sites, got it working great on one site without any problems.

Before you ask, Yes I did get different access codes for WOOPRA for each site.

It really is a GREAT TOOL if you can get it running now that SOL seems to have made some change in the editor

[iMarket]

I'm glad you're having fun with Woopra. To tell the truth, it can get a little addicting watching the live dashboard =).

I recently had a problem with my blog, where Woopra seemingly died for a week. I found out it was due to an Amazon widget I had installed that was screwing everything up, causing HTML errors and the like. Somehow the widget code caused Woopra's code to disappear, along with the rest of my footer.

Have you checked to make sure the code is showing properly on your sites that aren't working?

[EDS]

Jonathan,

Yes, See my post under "System Wide Issues to be Addressed"

[iMarket]

10-4, I went there right afterwards...

[cvarr]

I installed woopra, received my code, installed the code as a text element on my site and had it located at the bottom, and installed the program on my computer.

I logged onto my site on another computer and waited for the stats to show up and they did not.

Is there a step I am missing?

Connie

[KarenMac]

EDS reported that SOL is having issues with javascripts so it may have stripped out part of the codes. Maybe your sites are some that are affected by it.

Karen

[EDS]

Connie,

Check your code and ensure that the var_woopra_id line is still there. Sol's bug strips this from JS code if not inside < > brackets. They are aware of the problem as it effects any JS code that must pass a variable like woopra or google analytics

[cvarr]

So how did you get it to install.... that seems to be my problem... the id part is missing each time I try to install the code.

Connie

[EDS]

Connie,

I was able to get it installed on one site the night before SOL introduced the bug. This bug will also delete your google analytics code is you try to enter anything into the advanced head section or text element where the google code is located. I have spoken with SOL about the bug and will keep on them. I suggest that anyone who encounters this bug also LET SOL ABOUT THEIR PROBLEM so they don't shove it onto the back burner.

This is a MAJOR BUG for SOL to have introduced into the system

PS: Was that you on my site from Richfield Springs

[cvarr]

Could have been me on your site. I was trying to find out how you got your code installed so I was looking at your source code. I am not in Richfield Springs but richfield springs is about 150 miles east of me so maybe it picked me up and located me there for some reason.

I am actually from the finger lakes region - between rochester and syracuse.

I have talked to sol about this problem too... let's see what they come up with.

Thanks

Connie

[iMarket]

Connie, I just had a look at the source code on the two sites in your signature and the Woopra code isn't showing on either.... I suspect you're dealing with the same problem Steve ran into on Friday... (see other thread in "system wide issues")

[Bethers]

Connie,
If you looked at the other thread that was referenced from this one, SOL is aware of the problem and says they are fixing it. The fix didn't happen, obviously - hopefully they'll get it fixed soon.

[cvarr]

The reason you are not seeing woopra on my sites in my signature is because when it didn't work, I took the code off completely. I didn't want to leave it on there while it was not properly installed.

Thanks for looking though.

I did contact sol and told them of the problem and they also told me they will work on it and get back to me when they have found a "fix" for it.

I am sure I will be waiting a while.

Connie

[Bethers]

Connie,
As I said above - and as has been referenced in the thread about this bug, SOL does know about it and is working on it.

[EDS]

Connie,

You should now be able to install Woopra without any problems, SOL fixed the bug tonight

[cvarr]

Ya-hoo!

Will do so very soon. Thanks for letting me know.

Connie

[cmmcmm]

I have just installed the Woopra. Stupid question-where/how do you see the"live " stats?

I think that I did it right....

Thanks

Cheryl

[iMarket]

Did you download the app to run locally on your computer? You'll need this to see the live stats. Once you've installed that, log in to it, and click on Dashboard (on the left). Near the top right you'll see there is another option for "Live"

Let me know how quickly you get addicted :cool:

[cmmcmm]

No, I did not. Where is that? I thought I followed their instructions, but I did not see that anywhere on there. Hoping that even what I did was correct.

Thank you

Cheryl

[iMarket]

I'm assuming the part that you've done is relating to putting the script on your site? All that remains then is to get the software and install it. Try here:
http://www.woopra.com/download/
Cheers

[cmmcmm]

Hi:

I did see this page and do each of those things. I did the Java, the Windows download, and the manual installation.

Did I miss something?

Thank you!

Cheryl

[iMarket]

And it still isn't working? What do you see when you login to the java app? I just checked your js code and it is displaying on the site, so that shouldn't be the problem...

[cmmcmm]

Here is a stupid question-what is java app? I am assuming that must be what I downloaded but how would I login to that?

I am sorry for the dumb questions....

Thank you
Cheryl

[iMarket]

The java app is the windows program that you downloaded. When you install it and run it for the first time it should ask you for your login information, which is the same as what you use you login to your woopra.com account.

[cmmcmm]

Oh, it never asked me to log in. I just clicked on finish and that was it.Only the Woopra did I have to log in to.

Thank you

Cheryl

[iMarket]

File > Login. Does it work now?

[cmmcmm]

This is just my day. I have IE 7 not IE6 and have no clue where the File button is.

Go ahead and just shoot me now!

Cheryl

[iMarket]

sorry.. I meant within Woopra. When you download the Woopra program off the link I gave earlier, run that file and install the Woopra program on your computer. When you run Woopra (not internet explorer) there should be a file menu at the top left. It is a totally separate program from IE7. I suspect it will prompt you for the login information though, when it is run for the first time. You can also get into your stats through your Woopra.com login, but I don't think you can see them live there.

[cmmcmm]

I had already downloaded the Woopra on the page that you gave me prior. I did login to Woopra. When I click on the "stats" after logging in all the catagories come up as your query returned no results no matter which heading I click on.

When I log in to the above I still do not see any File menu. Just the name of the site-login codeID-stats etc. Then I click on view stats and the catagories come up as I mentioned above.

How do I see this live thing that you were speaking of also.

Thank you-AGAIN

Cheryl

[iMarket]

Hmm... I'm not sure what to say then. I would try going to Woopra.com and post your problem in the help forums. Perhaps someone else there has run into the same problem?

[cmmcmm]

I appreciate all that you did to try and help me.

Cheryl

[iMarket]

no problem - too bad I couldn't be of more assistance! let me know how it works out =)

[cmmcmm]

I hve no clue how it happened but it is now working. I went in a different way and for whatever reason it works. You are right it is addicting!

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Good for you, glad you got it working.

You should have a desktop icon for woopra. When you click on it it should open and ask for a username & password. Thiis should be a blue screen with box in the center and lower right hand corner should say Sponsored by Layered Technologies.

You should find that Woopra and SOL stats are pretty equal. I did notice that Woopra missed a visitor yesterday that came in via a email link.

Have fun playing with it, it really does give nice feedback to you on your vistors. Only complaint that I have is it shows the city but not the state that the vistor came from. Oh well, that what other programs are for such as IP tracking programs

[cmmcmm]

In checking the first day, the stats are so different even with the new stat counter. Woopra shows 50% less visitors than SOL.

Cheryl

[iMarket]

Glad to hear you got it working!

Regarding the Woopra vs SOL you have to make sure you're looking at the same stats.. ie one program might be measuring unique visits while another might be measuring pageviews... (possibly for each unique visitor to checkout a few pages)

[cmmcmm]

Thank you. I did check that also, just in case. It happened again today with yesterdays stats. It was extreme again today.
I don't know what to figure and have no clue what to believe. I have been making some changes so I do not know if it is helping or not yet. I may have to add yet another stat counter.

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Woopra and many other stats programs need the visitor to have java installed on their computers so that they can track the visitor. It is possible that some of your visitors don't have java installed.

Yesterday, Woopra showed that I had about 40 visits from one area of the country, Kansas, by IP address but SOL did not show any visits from those IP addresses. I had done a reverse IP lookup on all of those IP addresses and they are from Kansas, heck, I didn't even think anyone in Kansas even wore High Heels. LOL

Most of the time, I find Woopra and SOL stats to be pretty close.

[cmmcmm]

I don't know. All I know it happened again yesterday Woopra said 19 and SOL had 49. I don't know what to believe.

Cheryl

[cmmcmm]

Just out of curiosity I went and asked the SOL Chat and they said this:
The stat counter you got from SOL is the more updated than the other two and there's a posibility that the other stats counter are only compatible for static pages and the pages you have from SOL are dynamic pages
I have no idea what this means. Is this a bunch of bull or could it make sense?

Thank you
Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

What SOL is saying is I suppose a possibility. I do know that today, SOL has not picked up about 30 visits from the same Kansas IP addresses that visited my site last week. Really strange, Visits are less then 10 seconds long each but never to the same page. It almost looks like a SE spider. SOL never even records a visit from any of these IP addresses. So who do you believe, SOL or Woopra. All other times they are pretty colse to each other for visits, etc

[KarenMac]

Stat counters are perfectly capable of picking up dynamic pages.. Pages that are generated when a user types in a url or clicks a link. Dynamic means the page doesnt really exist but a database serves it up to a static IP when its called.

Google analytics is perfectly capable of tracking dynamic pages and does so ALL the time. Im sure woopra uses the same type script action analytics does.

Soo.. SOL is full of el toro caca when it comes to defining or making excuses for their short falls.. in fact.. their technology is mostly outdated, as Oracle is notoriously slow and not generally used for serving up webpages outside of major companies using an intranet system.
<edit: Oracle is notoriously slow with bad programming.. when a skilled programmer runs it, it can be pretty efficient>

Karen

[cmmcmm]

Karen:

I figured it was a load of bull but none the less did not understand what those two terms meant. I still have no clue why the stats are so varied. Which makes me wonder which is right -I have been making internal changes which I thought explained the higher SOL stats. SOL stats almost each one does have an IP address etc. So, could they really be wrong? Now I am really wondering.....

Also, What is Oracle?

Thank you

Cheryl

[KarenMac]

Ok.. heres the thing.... with SOL stats. AOL browsers switch ips when they switch pages. I think google since they are in cahoots with aol can determine an aol browser and only count them ONCE. If you copy and paste the ips in question to the browser and they come up as NETSCAPE or AOL, then you know the difference in how stat clients count visitors.

Next scenario.. i believe google analytics determines your ip as the client.. and if its YOU browsing your site it doesnt count you as a visitor but as an admin... Not sure if woopra does the same or not.. but i would assume that it would because you can download it to your desktop so it would KNOW you are the visitor.

Karen

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Here is a little tool that you can use to back-track a IP address to see where it is coming from:

www.geoiptool.com

You can even use the sat. feature to get a birds eye view of the general location. Bear in mind that this is not exact but it will give you a better idea where visitors are located. Have fun playing with this tool also.

[KarenMac]

Oracle is a database/server system

http://www.oracle.com/index.html

as a prime example their page loads very sluggishly for me... but its not likely something you will encounter often.

Karen

[cmmcmm]

Thank you both.

Cheryl

[cvarr]

cmm

Do you have Woopra installed on all of your pages? You either have to install woopra on every page manually or you have to put woopra in your background template so that it shows and records data from every page of your website.

Just wondering if you are getting the stats from woopra from ALL of your pages which is what the other stat counters are pulling from.

Connie

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Here is a comparison of all three stat counters on one of my sites for yesterday:

Google = 36 visitors
SOL = 36 visitors
Woopra = 85 visitors

It seems that Woopra is the only one that has been able to pickup the short visits from Kansas. Google only showed 2 visits from Kansas in the last 30 days. On 2 occassions, Woopra has logged visits from Kansas when both Google and SOL did not. Since this was on different days, I would suspect that Woopra is more accurate with logging visitors then either Google or SOL.

Only time will tell since Woopra is new and still in BETA testing

[EDS]

Here is another tidbit about woopra:

If the visitor goes to the secure side of your site (ie: check out pages) and then returns to the non-secure side, woopra will count this as another visit by the same visitor.

[cmmcmm]

Interesting, I wonder why mine are so varied even between the 3 of them.....

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Don't get yourself too bogged down in the numbers that the stat counters are showing. What really matters is of course the sales, who really cares if you have 40 or 60 sixty visitors per day so long as you are getting sales. Many sites may get a lot of visitors but no sales.

In your case, I would worry about the increase in visitors in relation to any sales increase if any. Meaning that if your visitor count is increasing but sales are not, I would worry. Bear in mind that you are still making a lot of changes and optimizing your site so naturally you should see a increase in visitor activity. Hopefully, that increase in visitor will also bring a increase in sales, only time will tell.

One nice feature with Woopra is if you click on the right most column while in the search view where it says "From:XXXXXXX" you can go to the search engine that sent them and see the search term that was used and where your site comes up. It is just like you performing a search using their search terms.

Also, if you use the filters feature while in the search section of woopra, you can see patterns and other things. For example, put a visitor IP address in the IP address box and it will show you how many times that IP address visited your site.

By the way, How are things going with your site? Any increase in sales since starting to optimize your pages?

[cmmcmm]

I am still working on the keywords. I have around 300 products still to go. Sales are almost nil. That is what made me wonder if the stats from SOL were correct. With the higher numbers I associated it with the changes that I was making. Now with the other 2 stats beling so much lower I question it.

As far as Woopra goes I have not even gone into anything other than the main page. Just a major frustrating time. Keep spending money and not making any.

Thank you

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Are you sure that you have both Google and Woopra installed properly on your site?

They should be both placed into your background page in the advanced section Header area. If you are using different backgrounds for any of your pages, then they both should be placed into all of the backgrounds that you are using except for the checkout pages background. This could explain why you see a lower number of visitors with both Google and Woopra.

View your source code on several of your pages to ensure that both of these statcounter codes are properly installed on all pages. You should be able to use the "Edit" "Find" option to search your souce code for the term "var woopra_id". It should be present on all pages that you check.

[cmmcmm]

I have placed both google and woopra in the advanced section under"body" with spacing between them. They are on each catagory & sub catagory page.
What do you mean by "background"?

I did see the woopra in the source code on the pages I checked.

Thank you

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

In the builder click on "Pages", then on the right side click on "Backgrounds". Now select your default background and click on "Edit". Now click on "advanced" on the right side. Look in the "head" section, this is where you should be placing both the Google and woopra code so that it is automatically placed on all pages of your site. If this is not where you placed it, this could be a reason for the major number differences.

[cmmcmm]

It is in the body section of where you said . Right underneath of the head, in the next box. That is where I was instructed to put in along time ago.
What is the difference of these sections? I never used either one before except for this.

Thanks
Cheryl

[cameraplus]

Cheryl,
The head and body areas in the Storebuilder are where you put content to go in the equivalent HTML <head> and <body> sections.

In HTML, the <head> section usually contains info about the page such as <title>, <meta> tags. It can also contain linked resources or embedded content required by the page such as CSS style sheets or scripts. Nothing in the <head> section of an HTML page is displayed in the browser but some items (style sheets, scripts) may need to be downloaded as content for the page.

The HTML <body> section is usually everything else i.e. the actual page content that is displayed in the browser.

See also: Structure of an HTML Document (http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/structure.html#doc)

[cmmcmm]

I thought that all the meta information went in the catagories designated for that. Should the meta info. be duplicated there also?

Thank you

Cheryl

[KarenMac]

Cheryl.. it goes into each page. But I wouldnt duplicate it in your background per se.

Karen

[cmmcmm]

Karen:

OK that is what I was wondering. I will leave the Meta stuff as I have done. Does it matter where in that advanced that I put the tracking codes? I have them in the body section-should I change it to the Head section? I do not know why the huge stat difference.

Thanks

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Why not try putting the Google and Woopra codes into the HEAD section. If you do, remove these codes from the BODY section. When you factor in woopra counts each visitor, even a returning visitor on the same day, I am finding that Woopra, Google and SOL's stats are very close to each other on both of my sites that are using all three.

It seems that for some reason, your placement of these tracking codes in the BODY section may be effecting how they are functioning, Can't explain why but since your numbers are way off from each other that does seem to be the case.

Good Luck

[cmmcmm]

Steve:

It is worth a try.
I will.

Thanks

Cheryl

[EDS]

Cheryl,

Keep us posted on how things are looking with Google, Woopra and SOL stats ofter making the change noted above.

[cmmcmm]

Absolutely

Thank you!

Cheryl

[iMarket]

With so much variation between the different stat counters, it almost underlines the value of running two or more on your site. At least this way you can get an averaged feel for the traffic, rather than relying completely on one or the other, which may or may not be giving accurate stats.

Although Woopra works great as a counter, I think the real ingenuity of it is the real-time availability of stats. You can sit there and watch your customers browse through your site, which pages they are on, etc etc.

Anyone tried chatting with a customer yet?

[cmmcmm]

Well, for day #1 SOL shows 53, google-2, woopra-I have not been able to access for days

Who can figure

Cheryl

[iMarket]

I've had a little difficulty logging in to my Woopra client as well lately... must be something to do with ironing out beta bugs!