Keywords optimization service

[akittikhoun]

Hi guys,

I like you guys very much so I'm going to be frank and open. I think this is ok for a newbie!

My site has been in business for about 2 months now and I'm getting on average 40-50 visitors a day. I have read most SOL stuffs and the many posts in this forum, and have worked as hard as I can on this site (given all the time I have between work and study).

My Alexa ranking is currently 1,278,293. On one keyword for my site - "wholesale sunglasses" - I am ranked 260 something on google. On some weeks, I get 2-3 orders and in some weeks, I don't at all. Full disclosure: so far I have made about $100 net.

Well, I know that results vary but I feel I'm not doing enough for this early stage. For example, I have not reached that 100 visitors a day mark yet. And although my next project will be the Zeus thing, I have not been able to get it off the ground due to work.

First, I'd like to know what you guys think of this situation? So far, I have used these strategies: PPC (google, yahoo, miva), submissions to web directories and vertical portals, Links4trade, and some site optimization (as much as possible - although I feel I have not perfected it).

So, what do you think I should concentrate on next? What combination of strategies that you guys used to get your first 100 visitors?

Second, (and this actually gets to the subject of this post!), is whether I should be paying these "site optimization" services to do the deeds. Can you guys take a look at two of these and let me know what you think.

www.uswebsitebuilder.com/seo.html

This one contacted me twice and offered to "optimize my keywords" (up to 75 words) using some tool that they will place on my site and this will in 2 months guarantee my site will appear in the first 1-2 pages of 20 top search engines on all those keywords. This will cost me $49 a month (their discounted offer). They said money back if they didn't succeed.

The second one I came across is

www.engineseeker.com/index.htm

This one I don't know much about but it seems "good" ;-).

Anyway, that's all for me... and will wait for your comments and experiences with the things I raise above! Feel free to comment on any thing, including any aspects of my site!

[cgebbie]

Hi

I have looked at a few of these services, they all tell em that they can not do this on the SOL template as they can not get full access.

I have been following the advice on this forum and saving money.
:lol:

Caroline

[Christine]

http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv1-&p=learning%20driving
Results 1 - 10 of about 26,400,000 for learning driving

The above is the result of pure optimization and good linking. Great placement on SE's will still not guarantee sales and if you want to pay someone a set fee every month for only doing a few hours work then send me the money I won't say no.

[Bethers]

I recommend you work to optimize your store yourself. If you want to pay $600/year for someone to get you on the top page of se's - make sure 3 of those se's are Google, Yahoo and MSN - and make sure YOU get to pick the keywords they have to get you there for.

You'll be getting refunded most months if that's the case.

[Jeanne Bell]

I have signed up with Engine Seekers and I am paying extra for 100 visitors per day. I rarely get 100 visitors, I complained till I get about 80, but I have not made any sales from them. My site is up since April and not doing much of anything. I have learned more from this site than anywhere else. Sometimes I feel like giving up and I just have to walk away for a few days, then I can start again. Good Luck to you.

[Bethers]

I could get you 100 visitors a day easily - so that's not want you want anyway, Jeanne - what you want are 100 visitors that are looking for what you have to sell. That is much harder. And that's what these places rarely, if ever, get - you'll get those with site optimization and link trading. Of course, the link trading has to include good anchor text back.

[Matt]

Just talking about my own experiences.
When we started our website, we were happy having 20 visitors a day.
Then we found end of August this forum.
There was NOT ONE day, where we didn't learn something new and everything is going by all the predictions and experiences some of our experts are telling, preaching, hammering in our head.
The fastest SE listing our store was Yahoo - now - depending on the keywords on #1, 6, 15. 37 etc.
About two week ago, MSN and Altavista discovered us, ranking with several keywords between #1 and 15. Visitors - ~ 100/day and sales getting better too.
Google has found us - we are still not old enough to be considered - indexed, ranked etc. - all according to the predictions made - right here!
Costs ? ---> 0, nothing, nada - nichts ! Like in the creditcard add -> It's priceless !
Keep in mind, so more you invest moneywise in your store - so more has to come back.
In the last 25 years I had 2 different Brick and Wall stores - small and medium sized oned. They all lived and depended on the people, who not only worked there - but by the amount of heart and soul they put in there as well.
The only difference to an online store is, we, the owners can come and go whenever we want to and no dressing code either :)
A paid SEO company may be able to find some keywords etc - BUT they are unable to translate our individuality - again - the heart and soul of our store.
Thanks again to all the helping hands here !

[akittikhoun]

Hi all,

Thank you for your thoughts. I really appreaciated them.

From what I've read, there're two things I have to consider here.

First, it is whether these optimization services can work with SOL websites at all - that is technically. Someone says these services can't fully access our sites? Can someone with experience confirm this?

Second, even if these guys were able to fully access our sites, they aren't worth it anyway. Well, I have my doubts about them as well because what they said to me was just too simple. Again the pitch: we'll let you choose 75 keywords, then we'll "optimize" them, then we'll put some program in your site, and voila -- within 2-3 months you'll have top rankings on the top 20 SEs (including Yahoo, Google and MSN). Otherwise, money back.

Is this even possible? Technically? They don't even mention link trading. How is it possible to get to the top of the search engines with JUST what they are describing? Even if they work their butts off?! I'm just wondering if anyone could shed light on this.

Thanks much!

[Christine]

Hi AK
I agree with your thoughts, plus why on earth would you choose 75 keywords? Within 2-3 months any site would start showing up. I doubt that they would refund all monies paid and even if they refund half it is still paying for something and getting nothing, as a commercial on TV is prone to say "I don't know how they live with themselves".

[Shoshana]

First, it is whether these optimization services can work with SOL websites at all - that is technically. Someone says these services can't fully access our sites? Can someone with experience confirm this?

The only way anyone can fully access your store is to give them your password. Otherwise all they can do is a View Search. They can also use various services to find out keyword density, etc. but they would have to type in the keywords to do this.

No one knows your store like you do. Most of these companies work on the meta, which shows up in View Source. A lot of people do have their meta wrong but it's not going to help to put the same thing in 2 or 3 times.

But when we're just starting out, the meta is about the most confusing thing to us and they know that so that's how they get us.

[Bethers]

Anyone who "promises" you top rankings on the 3 major search engines is lying. NO ONE - even from the se's themselves can promise you that - especially in that time frame.

That said, you can get there yourself with the right time and effort.

[ncope]

It sounds like they are using techniques that can eventually get you banned. By full access, they may mean access to the bin directory.

There was a company called Traffic Power that did something with putting code on websites a year or so ago and got many sites banned once they were caught.

I get contacted at least once a week from SEO companies that claim we are not doing well with our rankings and they can get us on the first page. Well, we are on the first page of Yahoo for gourmet chocolate and have been for over a year now. And that is a very competitive phrase. We are also on the first page for many other terms.

We just dropped way down in Google, but I don't worry about that. I have many other methods of getting qualified traffic than worrying about Google.

Nancy

[akittikhoun]

Guys, thanks for more enlightening thoughts!

Soshana, you said:


Most of these companies work on the meta, which shows up in View Source. A lot of people do have their meta wrong but it's not going to help to put the same thing in 2 or 3 times.

But when we're just starting out, the meta is about the most confusing thing to us and they know that so that's how they get us.

Ok, can you explain more about this? If you can take a quick look, do you think I have my meta wrong?

Christine, you said:



plus why on earth would you choose 75 keywords? Within 2-3 months any site would start showing up.

But if the SEO services are doing their job, aren't our sites suppose to stay there at the top? But I guess what you're saying is that they won't do their job and that any site has the potential to show up above you?

Thanks.

[akittikhoun]

Nancy, you wrote:


It sounds like they are using techniques that can eventually get you banned. By full access, they may mean access to the bin directory.

Have you, or anyone here, heard of this company called INTERNET ADVANCEMENT? Supposedly one of the biggest players out there? They also claimed to have over 500 StoreOnlines clients. Any of us? And I've just listened to half an hour of sales pitch that sounds as delicious as it is expensive. Here's what they do:



* We start by doing a full in-depth review of your keywords and phrases. By researching your market and products we are able to suggest the proper keywords for your site. This is the first step. You must be targeting the right categories via the search engines or you will not be able to create a high conversion ratio and therefore increase profit.

* Once the new list of keywords has been created, Internet Advancement will create a new optimized version of your metatags and help get the new code inserted into your site. By optimizing the code correctly we are essentially creating the foundation for your site and setting it up for the best possible submission to the search engines. We focus on making the description, title tag and keywords relevant to the content of your home page and therefore creating a positive result from the various engines.

* The next step is submissions. We submit your site to all 15 major search engines twice per month. By timing our submissions to coincide with the search engines re-indexing routines, we are able to achieve a strong placement initially. This timing is extremely important and not something available through software based submission programs. Basically what we are doing in this part is letting the search engines know who you are and what categories to place you in.

* The next step is to handle your competition. As you know there are many sites that are competing for the same keywords as you. We need to step in and do more than them to make sure you achieve the highest placement possible. We start by focusing on the manufacture of " Link Popularity " . This is a crucial part to making sure that your site achieves a higher placement than your competition and is one of the primary aspects a search engine uses to decide which sites are at the top of their listings. When a search engines is able to find your site while indexing another site it creates popularity and helps you achieve a better ranking. We manufacture this by having your site listed on approximately 8,500 minor search engines, special interest directories and yellow pages listings. You will see some increased traffic from these types of sites, but it is nothing in comparison to what you will see from the major engines.

* The next step is what separates us from our competition. We need to increase your sites submission routines, but it must be done in a legitimate way. The use of doorways, gateways and mirrors are commonly used for this purpose, but can have negative results when found by a search engine. WE DO NOT USE ANY OF THESE TECHNIQUES! What we do is unique to our company. We use what is called "Directory Information Pages" , also known as D.I.P's. These pages are non-publicly viewed pages hosted on our own servers that are seen by the engines as completely unrelated websites. The purpose of these pages is to increase your sites submission routines beyond what your competition can produce. Each time we submit these pages (also done twice per month to both the major and minor engines) the credit for the submission is applied to the primary website. Basically it's a numbers game. Instead of having just one website being submitted, you now have multiple sites being submitted and all the credit is given to your sites domain name. This technology has allowed us to maintain an excellent success rate. The increased submission routines, all done in a legitimate way, have allowed our clients to soar to the top of the search engines!

The Warranty

Internet Advancement warrantees that the results explained in the programs below will be achieved with 60 Business days of submission start. We begin submissions as soon as the new code and keywords have been added to your site. This must be completed within 30 days of program start date.

Should we fail to meet these expectations in any way, you as a client are entitled to a 50% refund.

Verifying The Results

On a 90 day basis you will receive a ranking report similar to the one below. These reports allow our clients to see exactly where they rank per keyword and per search engine. Each of these reports contains a live link to the specific page and keyword so that the client has the ability to verify the reports findings.

http://www.internetadvancement.com/seo/clients_testimonials.shtml

** After opening a profile, click on the " Ranking Report " link (top-center of page) to view report breakdown **

IA Client: www.overdrivepc.com

Ranking Report: http://www.internetadvancementworldwide.net/Reports/1954-4.htm

Google search: 'custom pc' Ranked #3 out of 41,400,000 results
MSN search: 'custom pc' Ranked #6 out of 22,246,000 results
Yahoo search: 'custom pc' Ranked #14 out of 20,100,000 results
Google search: 'gaming pc' Ranked #2 out of 40,900,000 results
MSN search: 'gaming pc' Ranked #1 out of 9,395,000 results
Yahoo search: 'gaming pc' Ranked #19 out of 24,500,000
Our Programs

Accelerator 1:
* Ideal for companies with light search engine positioning competition
* Warrantees top-20 ranking on at least 4 of the 15 major search engines
*Includes at least 10 Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) for submission multiplication
*
Over 187,000 monthly submissions on the client's behalf
*
$1,180.00 setup + $89.95 monthly submission fee
* Wholesale: 590.00 + 49.99 per month submission fee


Accelerator 2:
*
Ideal for companies with light to moderate search engine positioning competition
*
Warrantees top-20 ranking on at least 6 of the 15 major search engines
*
Includes at least 20 Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) for submission multiplication
*
Over 340,000 monthly submissions on the client's behalf
*
$1,580.00 setup + $99.95 monthly submission fee
* Wholesale: 790.00 + 69.95 per month submission fee


Accelerator 3:
*
Ideal for companies with moderate search engine positioning competition
*
Warrantees top-10 ranking on at least 4 of the 15 major search engines
*
Includes at least 30 Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) for submission multiplication
*
Over 510,000 monthly submissions on the client's behalf
*
$1,960.00 setup + $109.95 monthly submission fee
* Wholesale: 980.00 + 89.95 per month submission fee

Accelerator 4:
* Ideal for companies with heavy search engine positioning competition
*
Warrantees top-10 ranking on at least 6 of the 15 major search engines
*
Includes at least 40 Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) for submission multiplication
*
Over 681,000 monthly submissions on the client's behalf
*
$2,400.00 setup + $119.95 monthly submission fee
* Wholesale: 1,200.00 + 99.95 per month submission fee

Accelerator 5:
*Ideal for companies with heavy to extreme search engine positioning competition
*
Warrantees top-10 ranking on at least 6 of the 15 major search engines
*
Includes at least 50 Directory Information Pages (D.I.P.'s) for submission multiplication
*
Over 851,000 monthly submissions on the client's behalf
*
$3,000.00 setup + $129.95 monthly submission fee
* Wholesale: 1,500.00 + 99.95 per month submission fee

Our six online shopping malls:

www.4GreatBuys.com
www.4greatshopping.com
www.4greatbuysonline.com
www.e-solutionslinq.com
www.moneysavingsbenefits.com
www.linqnet.com


Well, what do you guys think of that?

[Matt]

* The next step is submissions. We submit your site to all 15 major search engines twice per month. By timing our submissions to coincide with the search engines re-indexing routines, we are able to achieve a strong placement initially. This timing is extremely important and not something available through software based submission programs. Basically what we are doing in this part is letting the search engines know who you are and what categories to place you in.

There are some Search engines around, which do NOT like it, when you submit your site 2x a month - they might even ban you.
Keep in mind, Search engines need YOU as much as you need THEM. As long as there is more than one SE is around, the competition drives them.
First of all they do promise you heaven on earth and claiming you are part of the "chosen" ones (no pun intended - just using it as a commonly used phrase.
Unless you have something extremely unique to sell - you will have competition - so lets take one example - "clocks" . How can they bring 100000000000000 "clock sites in the Top 10 ??
Having used the word "clock", yes I had Beth in mind and some others, she/they seriously has/have a reason to repeat some things over and over again - she/they knows it and she/they share it.
AltaVista for example ignored me forever - all of a sudden they just can't get enough :)
Google? Does anybody remember, what their "new" and "great" ideas were, when they came out, everybody was running to be part of "Google". Now that they are as big as they are and still growing- where are their former inital ideas?
They are one of the masters of inventing keywords and translating them to keywords, we all use now. I am positiv, that anyone of us, could implement or connect a commonly used keyword to a new one, try it and you'll see it for yourself.
Isn't it always amazing, that something which is offered for free, is considered less "worth" than something which costs $$$$$ ?
The difference is - one can't lose, when it's free - but be broke, after you spent big or little money. The more money you spend on your product to sell, so more you have to sell - just to break even.
Having said that, I step away from my pc and enjoy my fresh and cooked by myself - lasagne :lol:

[Bethers]

Do a search here on internet advancement - you'll learn lots - most not good - I think 99% of their clients are SOL merchants that don't know anything, unfortunately.

Anyone who offers to "submit" your website is not helping you. Anyone who offers to fix your meta keywords isn't helping you. You don't even need the meta keywords. Yet most of the corrections they make are to RUIN the meta you need - and they don't even look at things that mean a lot - like your page titles and copywriting.

Now, there ARE good SEO companies - but I promise they will NOT call you - they are way too busy to -

[luckystars62]

I just had a call from IA. That's exactly where he focused was my meta tags. He directed me to a google search for mens jeans for some company in the #1 spot and supposedly they stay in #1 because of IA. He said 'now look at their meta tags and look at yours. See the difference?' I explained I had removed some of the tags, (D.C Subject, etc) because they just don't have any relevance anymore and he paused and said "well I Know that. <another long pause> But some search engines do look at that, and if you come up high in the searches there, then Google, Yahoo and MSN will look at you more seriously."

Yeah....whatever John. :P

oh yeah.....and he did ask if this was my first store, which it is. And he said..."and you did this all yourself?" Which I have (with the help of all of you at this forum!!) and he said....." hmm....you're off to a pretty good start". It was funny. He sounded like he was getting aggravated.

[Bethers]

Do a search here on Internet Advancement - they are NOT one of the biggest players out there - they are one of the biggest telemarketers on optimization - big difference. While they are great at convincing people they need help - the help they offer may not be as good from what I've read here by the people who've used them. I suggest you do the search and read for yourself.

[jlpmte]

Internet Advancement's in depth review of my website included the home page only, he missed the rest completely. The salesperson was not even aware the products hadn't been added when he called me as the site had been published before and I was in the process of redoing it. Most of what he said was not true which I pointed out to him. He actually had very little basic knowledge of the internet. They must read the pitch from a form because if you question their statements, they fumble.

I can't imagine a bigger waste of money than this company. By the end of our conversation he had made disparging remarks about SOL merchants not being able to survive without the services of Internet Advancement because we were not smart enough to optimize a site without their help. In spite of my repeated requests for them to stop calling me, they continue to do so and even leave messages on my cell phone. Believe me a 50% refund is not acceptable, ask why you can't get 100% if they don't do as promised.